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604 not living, getting the will to join it!
Topic Started: Jun 5 2016, 10:22 AM (2,342 Views)
jonny h
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this is how i roll!
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ok .. when you try and start it, was the noise different to when you ran it without the valve cover, as if it ran without it on, but when put back on it does not.
this then screams that your decomp is engaging just enough to stop it from running, it's the only thing i can think of with the story you just told. as the decomp is on that valve cover
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,C26 604e, Posted Image

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MountainPirate
Knight
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Was thinking that might be the case also.... Will further investigate tomorrow. Though what I do remember, is that the cover sits flush on the head without bolts or pressure.....i.e its unlikely that the decomp is pressing down on the valves.
MP
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jonny h
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this is how i roll!
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MountainPirate
Jun 13 2016, 05:34 PM
Was thinking that might be the case also.... Will further investigate tomorrow. Though what I do remember, is that the cover sits flush on the head without bolts or pressure.....i.e its unlikely that the decomp is pressing down on the valves.
MP
iv'e had a cover where the decomp pushed it slightly. i dont remember it sitting proud or anything when i fitted it either. i just cant see any other reason why your bike would start without it, and not with it.
take the decomp bar off, fit the cover, see if the bike starts
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,C26 604e, Posted Image

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jonny h
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this is how i roll!
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or ... rest the cover on "no bolts" , then gently turn the engine over with the kick start, see if when the cam turns , it kicks the cover
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markslashbill
Knight
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Bent valves aren't easy to spot. I bent mine and for the life of me couldn't see any clear evidence on the piston or valves.
The bike would start but not run.

If you hold the head up to the bright sun and peer underneath in the ports you will see light.
This technique actually works pretty well, I used it to regrind my new valves and she runs lovely now.

Only once I'd taken the valves out and rolled the stem on the edge of a table you could see they were clearly bent.
R30 604, GL1100, XT600, C90
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MountainPirate
Knight
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head off again..... tried your light trick. One of the Intake valves is showing quite a bit of light coming through!!

F**K YEEEAAAASSSS!!!! (I'm not even bothered that I might have to buy a new valve....at least I Finally found something wrong!)

You guys are legends for putting up with me....thanks Markslashbill for the technique.
none of the other valves seem to be leaking (light trick, and filled each port with WD-40 and none leaked except this one), so I'll remove this valve, check if its bent....and if not, lap it again until it passes test.....then re-assemble I guess.

MP
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Britcyclerider
Viscount
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If you get stuck for a valve, I may have a second hand one for a fraction of the new price.
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MountainPirate
Knight
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Celebrations were short-lived.
faulty valve went in a drill and along a table top....no bending visible.
re-lapped and set the valve....and no light or liquid leakage past the valve! yay!

Head went back on.......aaaand still nothing. It seemed to perk a little bit and I got a few pops, but then went back to nothing. Additionally, now its making a horrible clanking noise whilst electrically cranking and not turning engine...assuming that means the sprag is now also F**ked? spring, or replace the whole lot? Almost expected this seeing as how much the things been cranked recently trying to get her to start.

I need 1 win!! just 1 win! hahah

MP
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Monty
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Charlie Big Banana's
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Have you done a compression test, wet and dry? you should see about 150psi, What are the mating surfaces like, did you lap them in before refitting the head?

Did you also lap in the other 3 valves? and change the stem seals at same time?
If it aint sharp I can play with it
My Utube Channel, lots of bike vids here. Subscribe if you likehttp://www.youtube.com/user/choppermark?feature=watch

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MountainPirate
Knight
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Bought a compression tester, will check comp when it arrives. Also bought spark tester. #allthegearnoidea
Mating surfaces were clean and didn't have any dings or anything beyond super-light scratches on them, though one of the Head bolts is stuck in the head, and wont come out, so couldnt lap them. guess we'll see once I do a compression test.
Other valves were lapped in on original head rebuild. Dunno why there was one not sitting right, but thats that. Stem seals were not replaced, but probably will be if I have issues with Oil getting in, though not sure that would give me a no-start.

bike has to go on its side so I can have a look at the sprag before I have another go at starting her.... fun fun fun Gonna be a hard swallow shelling out £150 for a new sprag clutch if shes not even running.......

MP

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Monty
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Charlie Big Banana's
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Go for a spring replacement first, as they get tired, about a fiver, Gary at Sportax racing sells them. or buy a KTM one, not sure which make and model, (can find out) they are the same lobes but have 2 extra, fit new lobes in your sprag casing with new spring and its all brand new, ktm one costs about £60 I heard
If it aint sharp I can play with it
My Utube Channel, lots of bike vids here. Subscribe if you likehttp://www.youtube.com/user/choppermark?feature=watch

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lahauteur
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Rider
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I copied this a while back from somewhere on the net:
The lobes out of a '99 KTM640 LC4 sprag are the same as 604/636. The KTM sprag is bigger, 2 extra lobes, flick them out and put them in the Rotax sprag and it works (also fitted new spring) Leave one of the old ones in till it’s filled up and then finally replace the old one. This is to make sure they go in the right way to avoid severe damage that will happen if fitted the wrong way. The KTM one is around £60.
2001 Rotax 640e Supermoto and 1998 350 Enfield Bullet.
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MountainPirate
Knight
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How does one know if its just spring, or if lobes are shot? Just taken out and cant see any obvious damage to lobes. Its obvious where they contact the outer race, but other to that, nothing.......

MP
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stevo604
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God
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if the spring is loose fitting on the sprag its no good replace with a new one
the lobes on the sprag will be out of shape and marked make sure the inner gear is ok and not marked with riges
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MountainPirate
Knight
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ok, spring is very loose, allowing sprags to wobble about and shift quite a bit.
no scoring or flat spots/chunks missing from sprags or either surface....so I might get lucky.
Will give Gary a shout and find out!
Once this is sorted, I can get back to wondering why she's not starting.
Can anyone give advice on the mixture/air screw position for the Dellorto as a starting point?

Cheers,

MP
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Monty
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Charlie Big Banana's
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one and a half turns out is a good starting point
If it aint sharp I can play with it
My Utube Channel, lots of bike vids here. Subscribe if you likehttp://www.youtube.com/user/choppermark?feature=watch

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MountainPirate
Knight
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UPDATE:

She is alive! tried and swapped out just about all I could, including: Sprag spring, new battery, new plug, new HT lead, checked head and timing. When she took....she just took!
Thanks for all the assistance guys, much appreciated. Now I can get on with the rest of the project, and might actually get some riding done this year! :-p

MP
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Monty
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Charlie Big Banana's
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So what was the problem? would be nice to know
If it aint sharp I can play with it
My Utube Channel, lots of bike vids here. Subscribe if you likehttp://www.youtube.com/user/choppermark?feature=watch

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MountainPirate
Knight
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You and me both. the last thing I did prior to it taking was the battery swap. could well have been some issue with the battery, but I hadn't really thought about it as I was using a car battery in parallel to give extra juice.
weird.

MP
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woodcarver
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Duke
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I brought a 644 as a non runner that had been left in a field that no body could fix. pulled it down put it all back and away she went never really found why.
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