| Welcome to CCM MaD. We hope you enjoy your visit. If it's your first time here please make your first post in either the 'Welcome' or 'Chat' section so we can verify your account quicker, untill verified your posts will need to be manually approved before they show, please be patient. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to access all of our features: |
| 604 not living, getting the will to join it! | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 5 2016, 10:22 AM (2,341 Views) | |
| MountainPirate | Jun 5 2016, 10:22 AM Post #1 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hi Folks, Backstory : Received from a pal 1.5 CCM 604's (2 frames inc swingarms, WP forks, headstock, looms, brakes, levers, plastics, various gubbins....1 rotax lump, exhaust, carb etc. 1 set of Enduro Wheels with knobblies) Chose the best looking parts (though all were pretty good condition), and decided to shove them all together. Bought some R30 SM wheels from a well known auction site (Believe R30....big disc,3 spoke alloys?), so had to buy a new bracket for front caliper, and make custom spacers to fit the front wheel to the axle and forks. Engine had the top end taken off and dimension checks against the book (all seemed fine). Quick lap of valves while re-assembling head, all bearings changed, and back together. Then "simply" slotted back into the frame.....what an utter C*** of a job that is! Forgot to put O-rings in when head went back on, so oil kinda started P***ing everywhere......thankfully was able to lift head and put some in whilst lump was in the bike (thanks to tips found here, cheers guys!) Timing is set (thanks again to guides and advice on here). Am re-doing the loom myself, as I'm not wanting to worry about lights or anything just yet (considering going for the hardcore no lights SM look, and if I decide to get lights later I can just sort it). Had a Rex's CDI, but it didn't seem to give me any spark when turning over, swapped out for a stock CDI unit and I'm getting a healthy spark. Dellorto (sp) Carb has been disassembled, ultrasonically cleaned and reassembled. Tank of new fuel. so, all things seem to be working and good.....now my question.... WHY THE F**K WON'T SHE RUN!?!?!?! The way I see it, I have compression, fuel and spark.... not even a sputter. Ive hooked a larger car battery in parallel with the stock battery, as she's not really got enough oomph to be turning over for 10 seconds every minute for too long, and cranking speed is more than fast enough IMO that she should really be taking. Closest she ever got was a fair sputter and bang when I sprayed a load of easy-start into the inlet.....but Ive got the feeling that it only took then because of the compression. This has been the situation for almost a month now. I keep trying new things, but nothing seems to bring this bike to life.... Losing the will to live, and really hope that its just a super simple thing that I haven't done. Help, please, anyone!? There will be thanks a plenty if I can get the beast running again, and it will give me the push I need to finish this damn project and get on with the others I have sat aside out of despair! :-p Cheers, MP |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 5 2016, 10:31 AM Post #2 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
oh, also, if anyone has a picture of how their rear brake master cylinder fits on the frame that would be awesome.... I cant find a way that it sits so that its in line with the lever, and fits naturally on the bracket on the frame....unless there is an intermediate bracket that I'm missing..... Cheers MP |
![]() |
|
| Gonzo250 | Jun 5 2016, 10:49 AM Post #3 |
|
Working-class moto psycho
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The lever may be bent, as they sit at a fair angle as standard... As for the not starting, are you -sure- you're getting fuel? Float height set to 17mm? Also, are you positive the timing is right? All marks lined up, especially the one between cam and cam pulley? Decent earth between engine, frame and battery? Edit: Also, have you checked the valve clearances? The Rotax is an absolute arse to start if they're not perfect. Edited by Gonzo250, Jun 5 2016, 10:51 AM.
|
|
I drink too much, I swear too much, I ride too fast and I crash too often. It is a universal impossibility for me to leave my tools alone and my bikes standard. 'It must go faster!!' | |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 5 2016, 06:31 PM Post #4 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Cheers for Reply, I am currently thinking that it must be fuel related.... will have to whip out the carb and have another look.... Does anyone know of a way to test if a carb is working?? seems a bit of a weird question, but dont ask, dont get I spose. 17mm from where?? Timing is the one thing I am fairly positive I've gotten right. all marks and centres of shafts lined up as should be, with crank locked at TDC. Earthing is fine. Clearances were all set at 0.05mm. I have heard that this is perhaps too tight though?? thought to be fair....It would still give me something if this was off, no?? Cheers again, MP |
![]() |
|
| jonny h | Jun 5 2016, 09:24 PM Post #5 |
|
this is how i roll!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
rear brake - it fit "behind" the bracket on the frame, make sure your foot peg bracket on that side has the two big spaces to bring it out to clear the engine. the float height is only 17mm if you have a free flowing Exhaust, otherwise it's 18mm measured like this : ![]() is your plug getting wet? you could hook a clear hose to the drain on the bottom of the carb, then run it upwards, so when the carb fills you can see it's level |
![]() ,C26 604e, ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| markslashbill | Jun 6 2016, 06:21 AM Post #6 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You can usually stink the unburnt fuel coming out of the exhaust if you turn the bike over enough. Lapped the valves? Check compression again? Stick you finger in the plug hole and kick it over there's no mistaking compression or lack of if you haven't got a guage. Pure guess, is it possible the spark is 180 degrees out? |
| R30 604, GL1100, XT600, C90 | |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 6 2016, 09:22 AM Post #7 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The carb must be the culprit, I'm just unsure how, as it was incredibly clean when it went back in. Will strip and have a looksee. Must admit I was expecting more of a "fuelly" smell to be coming out of the exhaust ports when cranking....which also points towards carb. Cheers for float level advice. I thought timing might be 180 off too, as obviously you get 2 crank rotations per cam rotation, but having set to TDC, and then TDC after 1 more rotation, and neither is giving any life. I believe these systems are "lost spark" though i.e plug fires at every TDC. so really there's no excuse. Thanks again for all assistance....she will live yet, She has to! :-P MP |
![]() |
|
| woodcarver | Jun 6 2016, 12:53 PM Post #8 |
|
Duke
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
petrol down spark plug hole and see if that works then compression test. |
![]() |
|
| jonny h | Jun 7 2016, 10:10 PM Post #9 |
|
this is how i roll!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
did you lock the crank in it's locking hole when you set the timing? |
![]() ,C26 604e, ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| RB636 | Jun 8 2016, 09:53 AM Post #10 |
|
Potato Farmer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Test the timing pickup with a multimeter or better still a scope. |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 8 2016, 10:00 AM Post #11 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Jonny h - Yeh, first time I couldnt find the hole (ooh err), but since, I have used the pointy M8 bolt trick and I'm 100% that its bang on. RB636 - is there a table with the expected values I should get from such a test? Cheers lads, Carb is coming off today and will hopefully get to the bottom of this. MP |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 9 2016, 07:10 PM Post #12 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
UPDATE: Still not running. Carb float level is fine, and fuel seems to be flowing fine through it. pick up resistance matches manual values....and it gives a reading when the nubbin on the flywheel passes, spark is still fine. Compression is fine, however a weird one....there seems to be a portion of the cycle following intake, where intake valves stay open, as I'm getting a slight backdraft and its pushing fuel out the back end of the carb....normal? I'd imagine this is possibly a portion of the cycle where fluid dynamics would mean that at running speeds air inertia continues to fill the cylinder after BDC? I am seriously losing my mind here.... Compression...yes, Fuel....yes, Timed spark....yes. Tried cranking without the carb on, and spraying Easy-start straight into the intake, and still nothing.... Tried dripping a wee bit of fuel into the cylinder then cranking, and still nothing.... MP |
![]() |
|
| Gonzo250 | Jun 9 2016, 09:01 PM Post #13 |
|
Working-class moto psycho
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Take the bolt off the cam pulley and check the timing marks are lined up. If you're getting blow back through the carb, it either says cam timing's out or (I hope you're sitting down) bent valves... |
|
I drink too much, I swear too much, I ride too fast and I crash too often. It is a universal impossibility for me to leave my tools alone and my bikes standard. 'It must go faster!!' | |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 9 2016, 09:47 PM Post #14 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
checked cam pulley today, and marks on cam (its an 865 I believe) match those on the pulley. I don't see how I have good compression, but possible bent valves? Considering the engine hasn't ran since the rebuild, and the valves were fine then, I'm hoping this isn't the case..... Might tear the head off tomorrow to have a look.....I've tried everything else I spose! hahah Cheers for ongoing help, is much appreciated! MP |
![]() |
|
| woodcarver | Jun 9 2016, 10:44 PM Post #15 |
|
Duke
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Long shot try new sparkplug. |
![]() |
|
| Chenerz | Jun 10 2016, 11:22 AM Post #16 |
|
Baron
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Agree with the spark plug comment - I had s spark fail fail recently and it took a while to figure out the problem as it was failing intermittently. Also could be worth putting a new HT lead on - I've had one of those gradually break down as well which resulted in much head scratching - they are cheap enough. Also replace the spark plug cap, at least you'll be able to rule them out of the equation and it won't cost a fortune |
![]() |
|
| jonny h | Jun 10 2016, 09:43 PM Post #17 |
|
this is how i roll!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
i'm with Gonzo i'm afraid, it's all pointing to bent valves |
![]() ,C26 604e, ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 13 2016, 04:39 PM Post #18 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Update: Had a good look at the head today. No bent valves. Confusing moment.....after putting head back on and re-setting timing....with the front valve cover off(exhaust vale cover), it took and ran for a bit, of course spraying oil everywhere out of the valve cover. Excitedly, I replaced the valve cover......and now not running at all again. Losing my mind! MP |
![]() |
|
| Monty | Jun 13 2016, 04:50 PM Post #19 |
![]()
Charlie Big Banana's
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
you have set the tappets correctly? if too tight will lessen compression, Did you fill the inlet and exhaust chambers to see if the oil or what ever you use seeps past the valves, when you inspected the head Edited by Monty, Jun 13 2016, 04:52 PM.
|
|
If it aint sharp I can play with it My Utube Channel, lots of bike vids here. Subscribe if you likehttp://www.youtube.com/user/choppermark?feature=watch
| |
![]() |
|
| MountainPirate | Jun 13 2016, 05:05 PM Post #20 |
|
Knight
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'll just take the head off again tomorrow and do it all again, will take some pics and stuff too, see if anyone can offer any insight.....The fact that she DID run a little bit....safe to assume that carb is working of sorts, and spark is working.....so its being narrowed down to mechanical timing and compression..... I'm beginning to only do a couple of hours each day. Any more and I begin to get into the mindset of "a bigger hammer will fix all the problems" MP |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · 604 DS & R30 · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z2.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)







8:54 AM Jul 11