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Gearchange; gearchange when cold
Topic Started: May 23 2015, 01:13 PM (1,249 Views)
stephenwhite990
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Learning about my CCM
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Being newish to my ccm 604 , It has had an old change since i got it , it was overfilled and now isnt !!!! , I have adjusted the clutch as described and is fine when the bike has warmed up a bit , but from cold changing gears up is very hard , down is fine .Is this just a trait of the cmm of will my plates need replacing ???? as I say it is spot on when it has warmed up a bit .
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Roadster604
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Psycho Dad
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What grade oil did you use. Might be a bit thick when cold causing a bit of clutch drag.
keep the faith
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stephenwhite990
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Learning about my CCM
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I used putoline 10/40 from hainesmc
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Minty's twin
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Commoner
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Hi Stephen,

Check the clutch lever pivot at the handlebar, mine runs through a nylon bush which was worn into an oval , hence full deflection at the lever does not completely separate the clutch plates, this may end up being clutch drag . The good news is it is a quick and cheap fix , just strip out the pivot bolt and replace this bush or make a new one - the latter was my solution then problem is solved.
Hope this has helped.

Steve
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Ant P
Viscount
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The engine probably just needs walming up 😕
I use mine daily and gears can be a bit stiff if im rushing / running late. Too much oil does the same thing but the rotax has an overflow behind right footrest. Too much oil and it will spit out from there then the gears should be silky
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Gonzo250
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Working-class moto psycho
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Really? This overflow is news to me... If the Rotaxes were self-levelling, there wouldn't be any posts about previous owners overfilling on oil changes, and a lot of posts about massive oil dumps after a service...
I drink too much, I swear too much, I ride too fast and I crash too often.

It is a universal impossibility for me to leave my tools alone and my bikes standard. 'It must go faster!!'
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Roadster604
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Psycho Dad
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Never seen an oil overflow. putting to much oil can cause oil seals to blow, not advisable. I wonder if you mean the crankcase breather at the bottom in front of the brake lever?
keep the faith
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Monty
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Charlie Big Banana's
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There is a breather from the stator compartment which should be dry, you can get a small amount of oil come out if the bike has been layed on its right side and left a while, oil can seep through the crank seal.

if too much oil put in the bike, clutch will slip and oil gets blown out breather top of gear box,
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Sportax Racing
Anything & Everything ROTAX
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A few reasons why the gear change might be stiff, worth trying some of those above. Also worth checking the clutch steels and friction plates if warped or bent gear selection is difficult. Check for grooves in the clutch basket, you can file these out once maybe twice but once the clutch plates go sloppy in the basket gear selection gets harder. Its hard to overfill the actual engine, easy to overfill the oil tank! If the Oil NRV at the back of the oil filter housing ( Big Screw) is not seating the oil will drain into the sump from the tank and then vent out of the breather through the centre of the crank and then the breather monty mentions earlier. 504's have solid cranks and vent through the top of the gearbox. As soon as the oil is then scavenged back to the oil tank oil in the engine remains constant when running.
Ive experimented with mineral, semi synth and fully synth oils with no ill effects and use synthetic oils in my MX and Trail bike Rotax's. The gear changes are all slick. Another problem associated with slipping clutches is the mix of 3x HD clutch springs and 3x normal springs - this effectivly makes a 3 spring clutch resulting in slip. The best springs are 6x brand new springs. They dont even slip with fully synth oil at 9000 RPM!!

Good luck with solving you gear change! HTH...
www.sportaxracing.co.uk
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lahauteur
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Rider
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Sportax (new), as the oil isn't realy the issue with clutch slippage what do you think of old Sportax's 2001 view on sticking with mineral. Have oils changed much since then?
From MCN: Mick Keown is adamant that Castrol GTX is the right oil for the (R30 Rotax) roller-bearing engine. "It’s basically a car engine. Modern multi cylinder engines run largely plain bearings, and need the film strength of synthetic; the Rotax needs the higher viscosity of a mineral oil to prevent oil being flung out of the rollers."
2001 Rotax 640e Supermoto and 1998 350 Enfield Bullet.
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Sportax Racing
Anything & Everything ROTAX
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Hi Richard, GTX is a fine oil, as are all modern oils which are obviously designed to work in different environments. Having discussed oils and lubricants with our Oil Supplier - MPM, I was told the advantage of synthetics over minerals is that they stay in there operating window at all temperatures where as minerals dont in extreme operating conditions. I wanted to test the myth that synthetics made the clutch slip - They didnt on the engines i built. I'm not doubting what Mick says but when i stripped the 405 (which revs to 9000 RPM) that ran on 5w40 all year in MX it was like new in side still. That put the myth to bed in my mind but thats what i enjoy about this job - testing the myths and making these engines go on for another 30+ years!
Edited by Sportax Racing, Dec 16 2015, 09:12 PM.
www.sportaxracing.co.uk
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Roadster604
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Psycho Dad
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Have to agree with you there Gary. Mine has been run on fully synthetic for 23 k now and have never had a hint of slip and the gear Change is as smooth as a babies butt!
If mineral is so good why did CCM recommend Mobile one in their owners manual and on the headstock sticker.
I think a lot of clutch slip and engagement issues are purely down to adjustment at the basket end as you are only talking an eight of an inch movement.
keep the faith
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RB636
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Potato Farmer
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Well i'll be, only ever used rock oil gamma mineral in mine, would like to switch over to synthetics though, just because my source of 25l drums of rock oil has dried up.
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Gonzo250
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Working-class moto psycho
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I ordered a bottle of this stuff for mine. A nice in-betweener for anyone interested...

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-917-motul-5100-4t-15w-50-performance-ester-technosynthese-bike-engine-oil.aspx
I drink too much, I swear too much, I ride too fast and I crash too often.

It is a universal impossibility for me to leave my tools alone and my bikes standard. 'It must go faster!!'
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motomaniac
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King
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Its been a while, but iirc, the problem seemed to be, if youd used mineral oil and then changed to synthetic without changing the plates etc, that was when people had problems with clutch slip... Never done it myself, so no personal input
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motopsycho87
Baron
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Mine is fine on 5w40 fully synthetic car oil. Using plates previously used to mineral oil. TripleQX stuff from eurocarparts. Every bike I've owned in the last 5 years has used it fine.
Edited by motopsycho87, Jan 30 2017, 09:38 PM.
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